The corruption goes deep, unfortunately. We have a wannabe dictator as premier whom Toronto doesn't vote for at all and yet seems to always end up as their pretend mayor. There is no actual democracy taking place here. Canadians do nothing but lay all blame on the Federal levels of government but when it comes to provincial elections, it's radio silence. And it's not hard to understand why. The other parties don't seem to even be trying!
It makes me wonder why we even need to have different levels of government at all in 2026. If everything is going to be managed in a top-down way, why do we need mayors or provinces?
We're stuck in a system where the provinces have all the power, the cities have all the problems, and the feds have all the blame.
Premier Doug Ford banned the creation of bike lanes under certain circumstances where they take space from cars, and has promised to remove bike lanes he claims are clogging Toronto's streets.
The bit about "we will have to fight for those additions [connecting to Lesbia Barna, East Harbour, etc]" really speaks to me. This is precisely why I find Canadian processes exhausting; the only thing we can agree on, politically, is that cynacism is a law of nature and thus sophisticated discussions about the past and the future are never on the table.
The cost? You articulated it well. But, for me, it goes deeper. We can put a pricetag on what retrofitting the transit network will be (adding stops at Cherry and Garrison Point, creating Spadina RER station in 2058, etc), but how do you measure the cost of apathy? ...of a city that is so exhausted by blatant under-performance and/or corruption that they simply throw in the towel?
Another interesting discussion is if they are going to be running wires for this project - will it be 600 (legacy) or 750Vdc. The flexitys can run on both…and there has been some discussion of slowly upgrading the existing network. 600vdc is more costly to construct (more substations are needed). So it might be a good idea to build the new infrastructure on modern specs. Cost control and modernization together!
With all the challenges facing the legacy system, this was a chance to show what modern streetcar service could look like—a true demonstration line with level boarding, bidirectional vehicles, double-point switches, and smarter stop spacing. Prove it works, make it reliable, and then scale it across the entire 500-series network. Instead, we’re largely extending the same old model, with the dedicated ROW doing most of the heavy lifting.
Would there be any requirement to hail a vehicle (and along with that request a stop) on a true demonstration line, as is generally the case on buses and never on metros/subways?
The legacy system has request stopping. The transit city lines do not.
The real game changers would be a sub fleet of dual ended battery powered streetcars, and replacing the trolly pole equipment on the roofs of the existing flexitys with batteries to allow for running off wire. This would:
1) vastly reduce the height and complexity of the new tunnel to union and under the rail lines at Cherry - potentially reducing the cost and risk at the bottom of Bay Street where there is a big sewer pipe that is requiring us to fill in an entire section of the waterfront to mitigate issues
2) eliminate the need for adding poles, sub stations and wiring in the Portlands - vastly reducing costs
3) allow for the cost savings to be used on adding track to the Leslie barns, again without need for cabling, sub stations or even digging up the road (they could be put on top of the road on the right side of commissioners - which is extra wide already)
4) allow for an extension around the ex to get people closer to the new science center and therme
I would model this on Nice line 2/3 where costs were vastly reduced on their tunneling, and eliminated poles in areas that really deserved to be kept pole free.
Should be explored. That it hasn’t is problematic.
It's the small things that all add up. Like it blows my mind that the Toronto streetcars weren't double ended or capable of level boarding from the start. A small change to the design would have enabled much better future lines.
Just like in Ottawa, for 25 years already everyone has been asking for the Trillium Line 2 LRT to be double track instead of being single track, and there is still no plan to ever do it.
What should have been easily done from the start is indefinitely postponed for future generations to possibly maybe eventually do.
I have to disagree about Trillium Line 2's initial launch. In my opinions, this is one of the most successful transit projects in Canadian history and cities should strive to replicate it. Like this article is about a multi billion dollar street car, Line 2 original cost $21 million in 2001.
Can you imagine a medium sized city getting a 5 stop train service for only $10 million a stations, tracks and vehicles included? It doesn't have to be perfect, it will: build operations knowledge, provide development opportunities, offer mass transit along the corridor.
The ion line is like the next best case, and it cost over $800 million. You could have built the Line 2 40 times.
The corruption goes deep, unfortunately. We have a wannabe dictator as premier whom Toronto doesn't vote for at all and yet seems to always end up as their pretend mayor. There is no actual democracy taking place here. Canadians do nothing but lay all blame on the Federal levels of government but when it comes to provincial elections, it's radio silence. And it's not hard to understand why. The other parties don't seem to even be trying!
It makes me wonder why we even need to have different levels of government at all in 2026. If everything is going to be managed in a top-down way, why do we need mayors or provinces?
We're stuck in a system where the provinces have all the power, the cities have all the problems, and the feds have all the blame.
Premier Doug Ford banned the creation of bike lanes under certain circumstances where they take space from cars, and has promised to remove bike lanes he claims are clogging Toronto's streets.
The bit about "we will have to fight for those additions [connecting to Lesbia Barna, East Harbour, etc]" really speaks to me. This is precisely why I find Canadian processes exhausting; the only thing we can agree on, politically, is that cynacism is a law of nature and thus sophisticated discussions about the past and the future are never on the table.
The cost? You articulated it well. But, for me, it goes deeper. We can put a pricetag on what retrofitting the transit network will be (adding stops at Cherry and Garrison Point, creating Spadina RER station in 2058, etc), but how do you measure the cost of apathy? ...of a city that is so exhausted by blatant under-performance and/or corruption that they simply throw in the towel?
Maybe we're already there...
The Ontario Line is going to swoop past the area, however the new streetcar isn't going to connect to it despite overlapping with it at Cherry street!
Oh brother…
Another interesting discussion is if they are going to be running wires for this project - will it be 600 (legacy) or 750Vdc. The flexitys can run on both…and there has been some discussion of slowly upgrading the existing network. 600vdc is more costly to construct (more substations are needed). So it might be a good idea to build the new infrastructure on modern specs. Cost control and modernization together!
With all the challenges facing the legacy system, this was a chance to show what modern streetcar service could look like—a true demonstration line with level boarding, bidirectional vehicles, double-point switches, and smarter stop spacing. Prove it works, make it reliable, and then scale it across the entire 500-series network. Instead, we’re largely extending the same old model, with the dedicated ROW doing most of the heavy lifting.
Would there be any requirement to hail a vehicle (and along with that request a stop) on a true demonstration line, as is generally the case on buses and never on metros/subways?
The legacy system has request stopping. The transit city lines do not.
The real game changers would be a sub fleet of dual ended battery powered streetcars, and replacing the trolly pole equipment on the roofs of the existing flexitys with batteries to allow for running off wire. This would:
1) vastly reduce the height and complexity of the new tunnel to union and under the rail lines at Cherry - potentially reducing the cost and risk at the bottom of Bay Street where there is a big sewer pipe that is requiring us to fill in an entire section of the waterfront to mitigate issues
2) eliminate the need for adding poles, sub stations and wiring in the Portlands - vastly reducing costs
3) allow for the cost savings to be used on adding track to the Leslie barns, again without need for cabling, sub stations or even digging up the road (they could be put on top of the road on the right side of commissioners - which is extra wide already)
4) allow for an extension around the ex to get people closer to the new science center and therme
I would model this on Nice line 2/3 where costs were vastly reduced on their tunneling, and eliminated poles in areas that really deserved to be kept pole free.
Should be explored. That it hasn’t is problematic.
Did you know there are overhead wires in front of the Colosseum in Rome?
Reece think that means they could be strung anywhere in the world.
It's the small things that all add up. Like it blows my mind that the Toronto streetcars weren't double ended or capable of level boarding from the start. A small change to the design would have enabled much better future lines.
Just like in Ottawa, for 25 years already everyone has been asking for the Trillium Line 2 LRT to be double track instead of being single track, and there is still no plan to ever do it.
What should have been easily done from the start is indefinitely postponed for future generations to possibly maybe eventually do.
I have to disagree about Trillium Line 2's initial launch. In my opinions, this is one of the most successful transit projects in Canadian history and cities should strive to replicate it. Like this article is about a multi billion dollar street car, Line 2 original cost $21 million in 2001.
Can you imagine a medium sized city getting a 5 stop train service for only $10 million a stations, tracks and vehicles included? It doesn't have to be perfect, it will: build operations knowledge, provide development opportunities, offer mass transit along the corridor.
The ion line is like the next best case, and it cost over $800 million. You could have built the Line 2 40 times.